Members:
- Lindsey Tait, Parent (present)
- Nicole Ford, Vice-Chair (present)
- Allyn Kau, Parent (present)
- Rachel deAzevedo, Chair (present)
- Sarah Shore, Parent (present)
- Adam Howard, Parent
- Isaac Zeigler, Parent
- Megan Gebhard, Counselor (present)
- Stephanie Davis, Teacher (present)
- Randy Curtis, Teacher (present)
- Stacy Kurtzhals, Principal (present)
- Taylor Hansen, Assistant Principal (Secretary) (present)
- Brooke Rauzon, Assistant Principal (Secretary) (present)
- Max Clark-Bradley (student) (present)
- Michael Gelhard (teacher) (present)
- Brian Bradley (visiting-parent) (present)
- Karen Pedersen (board member) (present)
Contractor Question & Answer Information Notes
Background Information: This meeting was part of the Eastmont School Community Council held on Wednesday, February, 15, 2023. Notes were transcribed by: Emma Moss, teacher, to the best of her ability based on the information that was shared. If things are referenced, or added for context they are contained in parentheses (). Questions about information in this document should be addressed to Stacy Kurtzhals, principal, to be forwarded on to the contractor or other district personnel.
Introduction Information: The person answering questions in this session is Stephen Galley, the environmental services director of R&R Environmental.
Before I start taking questions, I know that is probably where I need to be, I want to tell you about myself. I am 57 years old. I have four children and four grandchildren. I am a parent and grandparent also. I understand the issues that come about from this situation. I have been an environmental consultant for 35 years.
I’ll give you a quick recap of Eastmont, I mean Eastmont over in the original position, we’ll call it the old Eastmont school. There was a mastic beneath the floor tile that contained asbestos. It quantified at 5% chrysotile. That mastic had it in it, underneath the floor tile. Historically, someone came in and pulled that tile up. Half of that mastick stayed back. They put an adhesive over the top and then they put another floor tile over that. Your children were walking over the mechanical enclosure of the tiles to keep contact away from that asbestos containing level. When the flooring contractor came in over the break the tiles were removed. This is a non-friable form of asbestos. They then went into a grinding or polishing operation. What that is for is to lay the floor, or the new floor was to be laid down. It was about 5:40 in the afternoon, it was nighttime work .The assistant director saw the mastic and said, I see this a lot in my schools and I’m nervous. I looked at the phone picture and I got concerned too. Yes, it was the 5% chrysotile. It had gone throughout the schools which is why we had to shut it down. I can tell you about the abatement so you get your concerns answered. I’m an environmental expert and a little bit of a military expert, but some questions I might have to defer to someone else.
QUESTION: When they were grinding the floor, what was that on the first night, was it a small area and then they called in people?
ANSWER: The area of the floor is on the lower floor. The bottom floor is where the work took place. Most classroom doors were closed, nothing happened on the middle floor or the top floor. They were grinding in the majority of the hallways (on the bottom floor).
QUESTION: Are they able to clean everything in the school, or will items be cleaned?
ANSWER: There are items that we can’t clean. I saw kids’ projects behind glass. Those won’t be there when you show up. They are going to be gone. If it is a soft surface, it is so difficult and time consuming. This week we have over forty accredited cleaners in the building just this week. We put more people inside of it. I’m sorry if that project was going to get your project into Harvard. The safety and cost and it can’t be absorbed. On the 1st floor, a lot of stuff is getting thrown away.
QUESTION: Just soft items?
ANSWER: We went into the middle and top floor. We did air testing. We did it under an aggressive method called AHERA. It is specifically designed for schools we have to follow it. In those areas, what we did was air sampling if asbestos had gotten into those areas. Because the hallway doors were open I didn’t worry about cleaning, I just told them they would clean it. We did go into classrooms on the middle and top floors, none of those classrooms were contaminated. I don’t have the answer on the bottom floor yet. It’s a process, it just takes a while. Inside the classrooms, all classrooms are good. I’m talking regular classrooms on the top floors.
QUESTION: The kids had PE in the personal clothing and shoes. Is that considered a soft item that is discarded?
ANSWER: The answer is on the bottom floor I don’t know at this point and time. Most of the students’ personal belongings have been packed and have been taken to the top floor. They are waiting to push out clearance, by next Friday they should be able to be turned over. If there is a student that walks in and says where is my stuff, the answer is it is a landfill. I apologize now, but there is a reason for that.
QUESTION: When you say the classrooms on middle and top floors were clear, does that mean there was no sign of Asbestos whatsoever? There were some signs, but they didn’t meet a particular level? Was it none or a low level?
ANSWER: That’s a great question. The question was, what level did we clean? What did we see?
ANSWER: Asbestos in its natural form as you can see it, is not what is going to hurt you. It is what you can’t see that will hurt you. We do a visual, if there is dust in those classrooms, but it is just like a house. When we do an abatement there is no dust, it is all gone. If it was in a boiler room with dust this thick (motioning with hand), you could almost eat off the floor when we’re done. We conducted sampling in seven different outlying areas of the top floor and we sampled TEM – transmission electron microscopy (TEM) under an electron microscope. We did that sampling with micro vacs and general air samples to specifically disturb it. I’m sucking it and capturing all the dust on a filter to send it for analysis. I say me, but the microscopis can see it. That’s how we did the top two floors. The bottom floor will be different. Since it is known, we did cleaning in certain areas (then it will be evident if it is clean).
QUESTION: So when you did the TEM, did you find anything on the middle and top floors?
ANSWER: For the middle and top floors, we did this (the TEM) after cleaning of the hallway areas and we did not find anything. For the clearance, the level for clearance is a TEM 70 structure in mm square. Most of them are non-detectable. I don’t want to say something and get stuck on their exact number, but I don’t have that right now. They would have to have been below the 80 structures (to clear). (Those numbers have gone to DEQ) and they have until 5pm tomorrow. After the contractor clears it, and I clear it, then DEQ has until 5pm tomorrow and they will come in and look at it and have the final say. I will say, I don’t call DEQ until I am ready.
QUESTION: I don’t expect you to know the numbers off-hand, if the level is 65 vs. 70. If there is a way we can have their numbers?
ANSWER: Those numbers, because it is an emergency and a school (will be published). All this data goes to the DEQ and anyone who is 18 years or older can get that document. I’m sure we can supply it to post that information on there so that you can see it.
RESPONSE: We would love to see that information. If we had that information before going back I think that would help.
QUESTION: You can clarify, so said you did 7 outlying areas?
ANSWER: I don’t have a board to draw on right, but I’d love to draw on it, because I am a teacher too. The school we did it from the outside in. We entered the classrooms, the office administrative area, everything off of the off-the-beaten path of the hallways is where we went. We have them identified specifically on maps. That would be tough, but we know where those samples came from.
QUESTION: Are you the one who did the podcast? (This podcast)
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: So, every test and sample has been the TEM not PCM, correct?
ANSWER: PCM is still used. The difference between the two is TCM tells me exactly where the fiber is. PCM is not that precise. We send that in for analysis of fibers, all fibers. 3:1 aspect ratio is counted as a fiber. If we have more than 0.01 fibers for CC, we fail on PCM, there could be no asbestos. We did not file any of those PCM. The reason we didn’t clear that way is because we have to do the TCM. The PCM is on a daily basis if the contractors are meeting their requirements. If the dust level starts rising it says that the contractor is not doing something correctly. I know if I bust and have a failure. I look at them and come in on a daily basis. If there is an issue I call Canyons School District. We had one that was high, not high, slightly over the level, and that was it. That was 1 out of 45 days. Multiple samples per day including blanks. That’s a lot of samples.
QUESTION: From PCM to TEM, how many have been done?
ANSWER: I’m going to guess.
RESPONSE: That’s fine, that’s all I do in life.
ANSWER: What did the invoice have on it? Let’s go on the invoice (district personnel present at the meeting begin referencing the invoice – question is addressed later on).
QUESTION: In the podcast, multiple times, you brought up the HVAC system.That’s been a huge concern for me. You kept saying that is done last. You listed all the steps. Your negative pressure/critical barriers are in place. You know all your stuff. You’ve done the middle top floors from outliers. So you check an area, you get clearance — if you’re not checking the HVAC system to the end. Why not test it first? How do you test it?
RESPONSE: The HVAC system has been shut down for the entire month of January since it happened. We’ll get in there and test it.
QUESTION: So get in there and test it, can you break that down for me? Is that like reaching your arm in?
ANSWER: This is a little bit different; it’s done with microvacs. It is a sample cassette done by TEM and we’re actually sucking Inside every HVAC system it’s loaded with dust, that’s what we’re cleaning. We will get in there and test it. That’s how we’re checking.
QUESTION: So you’re testing TEM only not PCM?.
ANSWER: Correct, it’s TEM only.
RESPONSE: You’re not just testing in one place?
ANSWER: No
QUESTION: Where are you testing?
ANSWER: We haven’t determined all that yet. We did specific inlets. When we go through and do the testing, I come up with a plan based on experience. It gets written and it goes to DEQ. I submit a plan, or we discuss it. We have not issued a plan on that yet.
QUESTION: You could do this process, then HVAC system, it will test positive, and then what?
ANSWER: One of two things are going to happen. Let’s assume it comes up positive so it is greater than 70 structures per mm squared. One of two things – oh by the way we did change filters in the HVAC. It’s all the ducting. If it comes up positive. You’ve got two choices. School district you’ve got two choices, I haven’t really told you this, It’s either getting thrown away, the entire HVAC system or it’s getting cleaned. Even if it costs 3 million dollars.
QUESTION: Why in this situation is that the case? Why do you do the HVAC system last?
ANSWER: In this case I wanted to get it shut down as soon as possible to get it Isolated and sealed. THe HVAC is also sealed with critical barriers. 6mm polyethylene sheeting. It’s only in parcels. Do I do other projects different ways? Yes, it depends on the project.
RESPONSE: I apologize in advance, I have so many questions.
(In response to previous question about about how many tests have been done)
ANSWER: PCM – 121, TEM – 35 for January and two days in January. That doesn’t include February.
QUESTION: You said in the podcast, you were looking at the cases where their projects are. You can’t guarantee you had to get rid of them. How is that not the case of the auditorium for the material in the seats? For the books next to it?
ANSWER: What makes you think it’s not?
QUESTION: Even a better question! How do you check?
ANSWER: General questions, it depends. We actually are moving in the auditorium this week. We moved in on Tuesday. The carpet is going to be gone. I don’t feel good about it. If I put myself in it, it has got to be safe for me. For the chairs we’re doing HEPA vacuuming. If it’s larger than that it gets trapped. If it gets smaller than it passes through, but how does it pick up smaller? Due to the efficiency of the structure, friction builds up and stratic draws those in, below 3 microns in size. They will be clean and then tested. If they don’t pass they go away (meaning that they will throw them away) Everything else is clean. If the seats come back positive we’ll be taking those out too.
QUESTION: I just have a question, if this is the district you, or both. Is there asbestos underneath tiles in the 1st and 2nd floor? Do we know if there is more throughout the school?
ANSWER: Yes there is for other locations in the school. Every school has an asbestos survey completed unless it is new, unless built in the last 6 months. Every school has a management plan, they are located at the district offices. Any parent can identify where it is. You can go see it anytime. You can do a GRAMA request (see form for GRAMA request). The answer is yes, just because you have it, doesn’t mean it is a hazard. In 1979 when the AHERA rule came about (read more here). It caused more of a problem than it was just sitting there before. It changed after 5-10 years. In 1989 is when everyone had a handle on this, management then became the key. In this school I can look at a lot of things. This is a suspect containing material (pointing at the bricks on the wall in the KIVA). I have to send it to a lab via a sample. Just because I have to send it if it comes back with asbestos, what it means is that I have to manage it. Maybe I want to put plywood over it or a flooring if it was on the floor. Those are standard by all school districts. When the school is demolished, if they have a little in that school, that’s going to be gone before the school building goes. The management plans and the terms allow us to save money overtime and ensure the safety of the students and faculty when they are in it (meaning in the school building).
QUESTION: But in all reality, it (meaning the Eastmont building) needs to be updated, and that’s why we’ve heard in the community, that’s why people are transferring. I don’t know who I need to talk to. If we’re spending millions of dollars, why are we not just building a new school instead of just putting a band-aid over it?
ANSWER: We would have to do this no matter what.
QUESTION: I understand that you would, but at some point it’s going to need to be updated. Why are we not just replacing the building?
ANSWER: That’s a long-term management for schools.
ANSWER: (This answer is from Superintendent Rick Robins) We have to do info-gathering, and the cost of new buildings, and the economy has an effect. I think it’s too early to tell until we know for sure. And we think we all understand with the age of the building that all those things come into play. I know that is a lame excuse to give you, but that’s the answer that I have. That means for me as a superintendent, maybe we have multiple opinions or other eyes on it, if it truly is safe.
QUESTION: But is it up to par?
ANSWER: There are water issues, we have to do this no matter what?
QUESTION: Even if it has to be demolished, does it have to happen? (in reference to the cleaning process at Eastmont).
ANSWER: We would have to do this in a commercial building.
QUESTION: We are not just spending for a band-aid, even if we tore it down?. I just want to know where my tax dollars are going.
ANSWER: (Repeats) Yes. We would have to do this in a commercial building if it happened. We might not do a TEM clearance.
QUESTION: Is there a long-term plan in Canyons, in the terms of Eastmont, where it is planned to be replaced? It’s hard to walk into another building that are so far behind other schools.
ANSWER: (This answer is from Superintendent Rick Robins) Once again I’ll give you the lame excuse for it, and I can’t make that decision alone. The board ultimately will decide. For me, I’ve only been here a couple of years. The district has invested hundreds and millions of dollars in schools. So, I know that’s a commitment they have. They are not afraid to do that. I feel confident that they will do.
QUESTION: Right now, there is no long-term?
ANSWER: (This answer is from Superintendent Rick Robins) We’re starting long-term discussion right away, we’re actually meeting.
QUESTION: To that point, my understanding is that the issue with the first-floor came because of the flooding, so the other floors asbestos, there won’t be that part of the problem. The reason why we moved this tile in the first place and discovered the mastic. It’s not like the asbestos is going to die and we’ll need to fix that?
ANSWER: There is a process of renovations go through and it is occurring. It is an on-going process. When renovations occur, they have to be tested. Most of the time the work is done when children are not at school so that’s when they do that kind of stuff. Specifically exactly where everything is. I’m only dealing with it as it comes up. If I have to do something else, I’m like ok we’re going to do that.
RESPONSE: It’s not like we’re anticipating that it would suddenly become a problem.
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: In terms of a new school, that would need to be new money. It would be something to advocate for, that would be showing up at the board meetings and would like new funding and would like a new facility?
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: Do we know what the square footage of Eastmont is, and how much percentage has been tested?
ANSWER: Yes, we do but know the square footage, but not off the top of my head. By the time I’m done, 100% will be clean. I can’t turn over the area, for the question she asked before, how do I know? Well, it makes sense because of sample results. By the time it’s done 100% tested. What we consider testing, if I have rooms I can join up into one containment I do that. If it’s five rooms, great. It depends how I can get the air circulating.
QUESTION: To build on it, is it one spot you’re doing?
ANSWER: If it’s aggressive it’s everywhere. 13 tests per contained area.
QUESTION: Not per classroom?
ANSWER: It’s 13 TEM per contained area. 5-in, 5-out, and blanks that are associated with it. (This is the procedure for clearance).
QUESTION: As a teacher I am looking to gain access to my instructional materials to help this be a positive experience for my students. I am on the top floor. Do we know about accessibility for the floors?
ANSWER: We’re working to attempt to get everyone in next Friday in shifts. You go to your classroom, you get your stuff and you leave. I have to make sure you can’t fall through one of the contaminants into another area and now I’ve got you contaminated and the area, etc. by Friday of next week. We intend to allow the staff in the top two floors to come get your stuff. The top floor it’s ready, that’s where we’re storing the stuff. DEQ has until 5pm tomorrow for the middle floor. We’re getting it all ready, you’ll get it next Friday.
QUESTION: Why are you taking some outlying samples? Before you start sampling the floor, and now we know it’s positive, rather than all of the spaces — it may not be accurate for what is actually happening.
ANSWER: Random sampling is done for bulk items and I’m doing it random. Air samples are not random; it’s the entire space.
QUESTION: DEQ would come in after you 100% cleared the area. Correct?
ANSWER: Yes, can you say that you’ve cleared the top and middle floor 100%. I can’t let you in until after 5pm. DEQ is coming in phases on the 1st floor, 2nd floor, etc. It happened on a Thursday and then it was a long weekend. When they did, they sent people out. For the clearance they have until the following Monday if it’s on a Friday. It’s always in sections. It’s too massive for me to do an entire school.
QUESTION: The asbestos was found in the hallways between the janitorial room and elevator. Is that just one space in the hallway?
ANSWER: Most of the hallways.
QUESTION: On the bottom there has been glue seeping up for years now. And I’m wondering because it was in contact with the black mastick. Is that the reason the glue didn’t dry? Did that contaminate the glue?
ANSWER: I can explain the newer glues with the VOC requirements do not have the adherence and react differently with moisture. That’s why we were removing the tiles to take core samples below and see where the water is coming from. The newer glue has lower VOC and was being reactive by the moisture and not letting the glue adhere. The black mastic has high VOC and did react. It didn’t move from the water.
QUESTION: So, there was no contamination from that layer of glue?
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: How much from the bond money has gone into Eastmont itself?
ANSWER: There has been no bond money at Eastmont.
QUESTION: Are we the only middle school that didn’t get money?
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: When is the next school board meeting?
ANSWER: Tuesday
QUESTION: You said the 2nd floor will be cleared tomorrow.
ANSWER: Tomorrow, yes.
QUESTION: What is the timeline for the bottom floor?
ANSWER: That is really hard to answer. There are still questions that we don’t know the answers to.
QUESTION: What’s that question? (That they are waiting for answers to before the timeline)
ANSWER: That’s massive, give me a minute. We actually did an add-on. It can save some money if we do some stuff at the gym. We’re dropping down onto that area. That will take more time to turn the school over. We’re doing additional work to save Canyons District money. I’m going to tell you right now and don’t put my name on it. I estimate it will be shut-down for the rest of February and most of the month of March. I think we will finish sometime in April, that’s including the additional work
QUESTION: Does that include the HVAC?
ANSWER: Yes that’s for everything
QUESTION: If you have to replace the HVAC?
ANSWER: My job is to get rid of it, not putting it back in.
RESPONSE: Got it.
QUESTION: Can the staff bring over stuff, and have a guarantee it is clean?
ANSWER: If anything comes over here, we can verify that it is clean. We are testing as we encroach.
QUESTION: I have several colleagues that work on the bottom floor with me. There are multiple questions. Are papers, texts, considered soft items? All of our instructional books, you said the projects are going to be gone?
ANSWER: If we can clean it we will, if you are not able too, maybe not. There are reasons for that if it’s not there.
QUESTION: The clothes that are all in the lockers downstairs in the gym. The possibility of getting those back from the gym locker room?
ANSWER: (Making faces as if uncertain) I just don’t know right now. We’re going to find out soon in a couple of weeks.
QUESTION: In the gym supply areas, is all of our equipment. Fitness equipment (bean bags, rag balls, gloves, etc.) is that all being cleaned?
ANSWER: Don’t know. What we will do, and we haven’t entered the gym yet. It is the last bastion. I don’t know the areas. If it comes up positive I have to throw it away.
QUESTION: My other room, mine is 105 right by the elevator. Any college pendants?
ANSWER: Possibly, don’t know.
RESPONSE: I should just assume they are gone.
ANSWER: You will know if it is gone.
QUESTION: Following up on her question, you talked about cleaning the hard surfaces, are any of those particularly difficult, there are porous tiles. Do you cover those as you go?
ANSWER: That was the number one concern I had as I was going in. Where are my ceilings? I first went to my soft ceilings. Uh-oh, what am I going to show? That’s the top floor and the middle floor. I don;’t know on the bottom floor yet. We took seven samples in different areas of that actual drop ceiling, they are 2×4. We got 0 hits on any one of those. No fibers in those samples. The bottom floor I don’t know.
QUESTION: Once you’re done, is there a continued testing regime?
ANSWER: That’s a good question. Every school must have testing every 6-months sometimes. Every 6 months there is a reassessment. When it turns to the 3 year assessment.
QUESTION: A test?
ANSWER: Individuals who are accredited federally by the state of Utah. Utah pulls the documents and they (the individuals) look at them, they know where it is and they look at it (meaning the asbestos in the building).
QUESTION: Can these plans change?
ANSWER: The management plans will be changed based on what we have done. When we do the next update, it will all be refined and goes into those documents. It is an entire room filled with books. I had shelves in Granite in Salt Lake of documents.
QUESTION: What about the band and orchestra Instruments?
ANSWER: You’re the teacher. You’re my nemesis is what you are. Band room, working in it now. I’ve got people testing right now. If I have to clean every Tuba. I might have to pull all the pads off the clarinets. That will be one instrument at a time. Nothing is done on the cuff. There is a process.
QUESTION: Everyone will be cleaned and looked at?
ANSWER: Yes.
QUESTION: I play the euphonium, will it be ok to breathe in?
ANSWER: You’re going to be the guy I talk to. That’s one of the things I’m looking for. You’re a main focus of energy, and a main focus of time too. It’s going to take awhile.
QUESTION: The HVAC was on when they were grinding?
ANSWER: That spot might be sample free, but if you got into that room (via the HVAC). It’s (the HVAC) separated into three separate systems. They are not connected. We’re heating the school manually.
QUESTION: Clear cut?
ANSWER: The bottom floor is a clear cut. We’re moving down, we’ve checked out.
QUESTION: The HVAC? You tested it as you clear?
ANSWER: We’re condensing down into a central location. You can’t walk through a door without plastic over it. Everything has plastic over it to protect it.
QUESTION: This is the first time I’ve heard there are three different HVAC systems. Do we believe that the contaminants happened on the 2nd and third floor?
ANSWER: I can give my professional opinion, the dust made into the 2nd floor into the hallway areas. I saw it, so that’s why I can say it. I saw it in the stairwell areas, and now what happens is we do a visible dust and debris check.
QUESTION: You think it (the grinding) was so powerful?
ANSWER: It was just the standard air movement. It just does, that is just how dust works. I thought it was separate, and I’m never sure until I found out.
QUESTION: Maybe you answered it, how do you clean hard surfaces?
ANSWER: The first thing that is done (pointing at the railing as an example) is it is saturated with a soap and water mix, we do that to keep the fibers down. Water is a miraculous thing.. After that is done it is scraped, everything is getting pushed out through the filters. After it is scraped, it is wet-wiped until it is clean. The wet-wiping happens with the soap mix. If there is a fingerprint right there, it wasn’t cleaned. I’m seeing fingerprints on it. I know how to do the same things when your students do something and you know it isn’t done right. I have my guys reclean it. Zero visible dirt dust or debris. .Then we do air sampling and then it contains everything else.
QUESTION: The Eastmont proper. Is known to have Asbestos. Two rooms on the 2nd floor were properly abated. All the old tile, why is the bottom not under the same procedures?
ANSWER: All the tiles did not have asbestos.
QUESTION: Why were the abatements on the 2nd floor not caught sooner?
ANSWER: Mistakes happen all the time. When we do bulk sampling it’s taken from different areas. It was random from the building samples
QUESTION: So the testing just failed?
ANSWER: On the testing, for the school district first, and then everything in there, the protocols were followed. What you’re looking at when you identify, is I’m looking at this building through this straw. I told someone about a little store. I worked at Kmart many years ago. They had tiles white and blue tiles. Because I saw one tile, and they were different, I had to take two different samples. I only took seven samples of the main tiles. Those seven came back negative. The two on the other tile. They came back positive. What if you had a carpet over that? How are you going to know? Yes, it happens. A lot more than I know? Because if I knew about it, it wouldn’t be happening. It came back negative.
QUESTION: You say you identified ancillary places, how many and where?
ANSWER: Out of the hallways, you weren’t talking about specific classrooms. Out in the hallways was what I meant by ancillary.
QUESTION: Are there areas in the school that are not being tested?
ANSWER: We’re looking at every space. We’re going inside every space.
QUESTION: You were talking about soft surfaces, you use the HEPA vacuum, are you cleaning the soft surfaces because they tested positive?
ANSWER: Because no matter what they are cleaned. We test the surface after they’ve cleaned.
QUESTION: To prepare our students what to expect. Are we just assuming they’ll come back in the Fall to Eastmont proper?
ANSWER: (Stacy answering) I can speak on my behalf. I don’t want to uproot the kids in the middle of testing and the last week of school. If it is after Spring Break I would fight to stay in the building. I haven’t talked to the big bosses (“Big bosses” present say that they would defer to Stacy)
QUESTION: I want to clarify, when we do have access, anything that is left behind you feel is safe? We don’t have to go in and question, this is a soft surface, what do I do?
ANSWER: I will tell you that I have to certify that it is clean.
QUESTION: You’re doing your cleaning process, you’re thinking that it will be done mid-Aprilish. There still needs to be done for drilling. What’s the plan?
ANSWER: (Answer via Leon Wilcox, Canyons School District Facilities Director) Once we get the core samples, then we are having them looked at and analyzed and how to mitigate the water issues that have been plaguing the school.
QUESTION: Is that counted in the April timeline?
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: We had the floor just after Christmas, because we had a pipe break. Are all of the pies, have they been checked if they are insulted with stuff that has asbestos in it? Since we have a pipe problem.
ANSWER: All asbestos should have been and identified. It is identified in the management plans.
QUESTION: The district should be able to tell us where it is?
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: So you can get those with GRAMA reports?
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: Can you define what the area was? (As in the impacted area)
ANSWER: Areas change from an engineering perspective based on every area. If I can connect an area we do, as far as containment.
QUESTION: Can you connect the whole area?
ANSWER: If I could do the whole area I would. We divided it into 3 areas, then hallways, then we divided it into the library, cafeteria, and then the classrooms are areas amongst themselves. Not individuals, I’ll call the one. If you can connect those areas and minimize those samplings. We want to save money. Everyone sitting in this room is paying for this. In my professional judgment, before it goes through the school district, it has to go through me if it is clean.
QUESTION: The top and middle areas are safe, except the HVAC system.
ANSWER: Yes
QUESTION: I don’t want the cost of this. Spending $10 is not what I am concerned about.
RESPONSE: Let me respond to what I think what you’re asking about is if I’m going to save money for the safety of your child?
RESPONSE (for asker): Yes
ANSWER: Absolutely not. I have four children and four grandchildren. You’re looking at a guy who grew up at the worst time. Lead and asbestos are the worst. If you grew up in the 1970s. You’re going to die before everything else, because everything is going to get better than that. Will I die from that? Maybe so. Am I going to risk your child? There are some things that don’t get price tags. I have lost a son, I won’t lose another soon.
QUESTION: You said in the podcast, you won’t turn it over. DEQ or the District? If either one, who then is the last say?
ANSWER: The final say is the school district. If the school district doesn’t like what I say, and the DEQ says it. They are the ultimate answer (the Canyons School District). If anyone says it is not clean, we do it again. They get the final say. Until it gets past me, I dont’ turn it over to DEQ, they don’t want any part of it. They’re just saying yes or no Stephen. Then it goes to the school district.
QUESTION: Is there anyone who say it too?
ANSWER: I work through facilities.
QUESTION: All these plans and all these tests. Everything we can see. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed. Where can we find that?
ANSWER: Right now it is on people’s desks. It is at the site, and the district. The reason it is not accessible is because right now it is raw data. I’m looking at it on an on-going basis. It is required by the state, when they get it, they’re going to go through it. It goes into the database and it is always there.
QUESTION: Do parents have access to the process abatement plan?
ANSWER: Do you know if the plan got posted?
RESPONSE: I have not.
QUESTION: The abatement plan was supposed to be posted?
ANSWER: Is there something that can be posted this week? Send the link to Stacy to send out. That should be with an approved stamp. There is a green stamp on every page. (Look for the green stamp). On my school site. We did start executing before the plan. I was allowed to do that before as a project designer. We did start before DEQ because of the holiday and it was an emergency situation. What else?
QUESTION: If our school is losing stuff in this process, will there be help financially to replace those?
ANSWER: (This answer is from Leon Wilcox, facilities) Yes, there will be.
QUESTION: This is a follow-up to that. If I have 15 clarinets with no pads, and 2-3 are students. Are we buying the pads and who’s paying?
ANSWER: We haven’t gotten to that. That’s hypothetical. We might not even have to go there.
QUESTION: All hard surfaces were cleaned. I wasn’t sure if you just meant in the areas that saw dust, or if you meant every classroom on the top floor?
ANSWER: That’s a good clarification question. We cleaned all hard surfaces in the hallways, bathrooms, anything that was open to the central area. We did not clean surfaces in the office or the classrooms up there, because we did the TEM testing and we did microvacs and didn’t find anything.
QUESTION: What about the hard surfaces in the hallway?
ANSWER: We cleaned hard surfaces in the hallways. We did not clean in the classrooms because we did TEM, and microvacs.
QUESTION: Do you know what rooms were open?
ANSWER: Auditorium and the weight room were open. HVAC system on the bottom floor.
QUESTION: The flooring in the basement, you said that the glue was in touch with the black mastick. What was the layering again?
ANSWER: Originally there was black mastick. 5% chrysotile. A floor tile 12×12 went on top. Someone ripped those up. The tiles got ripped up and removed. The black mastick half of it was left. Non-asbestos and put a new floor tile over that. That is how the enclosure was done.
RESPONSE: So it was half-assed? That’s my concern.
QUESTION: Can you explain the chain of custody?
RESPONSE: How do you know about chain of custody? Who told you to ask that?
ANSWER: These are your words sir. I’m a forensic nurse, so thats how I know about chain of custody.
ANSWER: RICRA (link for that here) was set for. I’m one of the first environmental engineers in 1984, but I was in 1988. A chain of custody, it is tracking cradle to grave. You own it until it goes to the landfill. A chain of custody for things like that and samples. It is used for legal items too. Legal items are going to the chain of custody. It actually has a date on it, the inspector tha did it. It has signatures, and has a unique chain of custody.
QUESTION: Are you doing it with every sample?
ANSWER: It is required.
RESPONSE: TCM and PCM?
All samples. All samples, I don’t use absolutes, but this one all. I have to have a chain of custody, the lab won’t analyze it if I don’t send it to them with this chain of custody.
QUESTION: Who was in charge of sampling?
ANSWER: I know the guys names, but I’m not going to mention it, but yes, I did see where it was sampling. There were four obtained.
QUESTION: Just four samples?
RESPONSE: Yes. When you say just four?
ANSWER: Remember we look at it through the straw, that’s a prime example. Why four? Under miscellaneous materials they are divided up into three basic areas: thermosystems insulation, surfacing area and miscellaneous items. It is one of those three. Everying. These are miscellaneous materials, under the asbestos hazardous emergency response act I am required as an accredited and certified building inspector to take a minimum of two samples from every miscellaneous material. Two types of quartiles require two types of samples from each one. They were obtained. However, what we did notice is that the black mastick was not identified in those particular samples by the laboratory.
QUESTION: Why didn’t they go deep enough?
ANSWER: It’s not deep enough, it’s about where it exists. Remember 50% was left back?
RESPONSE: So, why was the contractor allowed to continue working when he knew it was wearing his blades down faster than a normal floor, and he had over 30 years of experience from what he told me.
ANSWER: Ok, that’s a question I can’t answer.
RESPONSE: Why was he allowed to continue working when he questioned?
ANSWER: Well he wasn’t allowed to. He was stopped, and me and the assistance facilities manager we talked about specifically talked about it.I didn’t know it was positive about it. I recommended we send them home. He told me it gets tested and it is going to come back hot. He knew.
QUESTION: Question for the district, for those people that were in the building and who were working? Why was the sanding going on, do they have a plan for those people in the building if something happens, and heaven forib, they get mesothelioma?
ANSWER: There are 22. That is between the district and those people. If you were one of them, meet with the district after?
QUESTION: That’s why we were questioning, I feel like they are held liable. This should have been caught way early in the process.
ANSWER: I would suggest you name them in lawsuit. It won’t go anywhere, I really did. All the checks were done. It wasn’t found.
QUESTION: Knowing that the building in the early 1970’s.
ANSWER: Not all the mastic was positive. The lab read them, and they came back negative.
QUESTION: It doesn’t prove it.
ANSWER: It’s state of the art. If you’ve got a better idea, contact your congressman to make it the law.
QUESTION: So, you’re saying that every building is required, and they identified where the areas of asbestos is? Did they know that there was asbestos, it wouldn’t have been done?
ANSWER: What we need to do, is question our concerns, and all the employees that are concerned? Not going in and rehash where it (the asbestos) came from.
QUESTION: If people are going to go back in the building. Would it be safe?
ANSWER: I’m going to say that is and it will be assured that it is.
QUESTION: What will be the assurance that we won’t be subjected?
ANSWER: I feel good with them. I feel confident when I see those. Is anything in this world 100%?
QUESTION: The turn over is never a guarantee. Do parents have a say? Is that between you and the district?
ANSWER: That’s a legal question for the district.
ANSWER: (Leon Wilxoc from Canyons District Facilities) We want parent’s say. If people want more testing we can do that. If people want more testing we can do it. Testing is about all we have.
QUESTION: A new-school would be 100% asbestos free.
ANSWER: No, not necessarily, you have to have an asbestos test regardless. It can still be used in many other things. Just because it can’t be manufactured in new products, it doesn’t mean we won’t reinstall it. I went to a 2008 facility. I tested the floor and it came back positive. They needed 2,300 square feet. The contractor, he probably wanted to get rid of it. He had it in a back room somewhere. I don’t know all of it. It happens all the time. Does it happen in your schools, or your house? Stuff we get from China, lead, mercury, etc. I got dishware the other day. It didn’t look right to me. I shot it and I threw it away. I shot it with the XRF, then I threw it away because it was lead. I would give you a large percentage that it is not going to be in there. We spent 250,000 abating your roof. I went back, read the ingredients on some of the new things and they have asbestos. It’s in most joint compounds. It’s a great date night, go read the ingredients at the hardware store. I love it. They were putting the tar on the roof we had done. Your construction contacts don’t say anything about asbestos. I can’t find where you told them not to put an asbestos roof, but they didn’t tell them to put a roof back on. It happens. Sorry.
QUESTION: I’m confident. Asbestos is scary with our kids, but I am confident in what you are doing.
ANSWER: It should be, but thank you. I have been doing this a long time. I went into a house, I tried to save their clothes. I had to throw away their clothes again. I was an expert witness. It was not half of what they needed. If I was confident about it, I would ask you to be confident about it.
QUESTION: Is the last update (to the safety guidelines that were referenced earlier)?
ANSWER: There was one in 1996 that is best standard practices. We’ve had guys try a few things — a chemical that can change the chemical structure, but it can’t work its way through the materials though. There are things that are tiring all the time. We can do a floor that will pull up the mastick with a water machine, do you know how many contractors? One. It’s the one that is contracted with the Canyons School District. It’s a machine they can go through and pull up the mastic. (Stephen looks around – it is visibly present that there are no more questions). It sounds like we’re good, can we turn it back over to you? (referencing Stacy). If you have questions, run them through Stacy and she will get them forwarded to me, or to the district.
- Approval of Minutes from January meeting.
- Rachel moved to approve minutes.
- Ms. Davis seconded.
- SCC unnamously approved
- Discussion and feedback of draft TSSP and Land Trust goals and spending.
- Draft was sent out.
- There were some questions on how growth is being measured. Ms. Kurtzhals explained.
- Ms. Ford asked about earmarking dollars for “Club Thursday” like Draper Park
- Ms. Kurtzhals explained how we tried this, but it is unsustainable due to teachers already putting in so much time and other factors
- Ms. Kau asked about some data questions.
- It was explained how data is delayed due our move to Crescent View Middle School
- Most expenditures are for staffing. Those positions will carry over next year.
- Ms. Ford asked tracking school climate.
- Ms. Kurtzhals explained how we have team meetings.
- How we as staff interview students and ask ourselves if we know this student (beyond their name).
- Ms. Kurtzhals shared how Max asked if the school climate is better here.
- Ms. Kurtzhals explained how Max mentioned it might better because we can see each other better due to the one floor.
- Counseling Update
- Steep in registration
- Mr. Bradley asked about high school registration. Ms. Gebhard explained more about high school registration.
- Discussion on school behavior and the uptick we are seeing. Furthermore how we hope to address this uptick (review of rules, PBIS store, etc.)
- Lifeline curriculum (suicide prevention) will be taught in health classes soon.
- Ms. Shore explained her worry of incoming 6th graders going elsewhere because school is not open.
- Our goal is still to have an open house for incoming 6th grader as soon as possible.
- Ms. Ford shared the importance of SCC’s and the importance of raising your voice.
- Ms. Kurtzhals made a motion to adjourn. Ms. Ford second. SCC adjourned.
